Episode Summary

Ep 21: SSAVEIM, Interview with John-Michael Keyes (Part 2) from the I Love U Guys Foundation. Originally recorded Dec 2019 just prior to COVID, in Part 1 we discussed the Standard Reunification Method (SRM) approach to Reunification. In Part 2, we talk about our joint efforts to create the new SSAVEIM course, School Safety and Violent Event Incident Management.

Episode Notes

Episode 21: School Safety and Violent Event Incident Management (SSAVEIM)

John-Michael Keyes Interview - Part 2

Bill Godfrey:

Okay. So I am going to tangent and take us to talking about our new course that we're doing together jointly with C3 and I Love U Guys Foundation, SSAVEIM, and that is School Safety and Violent Event Incident Management. I'm so excited that we're going to get this. You and I have been working on this for such a long time. It feels like an eternity, and we're finally going to get this released and have it out here in the first quarter of 2020. I'm very, very excited to have that step forward and come forward. Do you mind talking a little bit about what it meant to you and how you see it all fitting together?

John-Michael:

Well, one of the things we've been really good at is classroom instructional materials development training and actually conducting those trainings. Getting that functional side of things is, I think, where C3 pathways has excelled. And integrating the Counterstrike tool into a reunification scenario, where we can go hands on, where we can get more functional with it, has been an extraordinary addition to how we looked at training and instruction. So I think the first step in that was the brilliance of taking the Counterstrike concept and saying, let's move that to a reunification. Let's put educators around the table, not just first responders, and it's been a tremendous addition to how we're going to be conducting some of our trainings in the future.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah, I'm and I'm really excited about it. For the benefit of the listeners, the SAVEIM class is intended to be an eight hour class, a single day that is for a mix of responders and school administrators together. So we want some law enforcement in the room. We want fire EMS in the room, some emergency management. But we also want a very healthy showing of school administrators. We expect the typical class size to run right around 50 people. About half of that would be school personnel, whether that's a mix of school leadership and teachers and administrators along with a good selection of law enforcement and fire EMS personnel, the responders, some 911 and emergency management mixed in. But in that eight hour day, what we're planning to do, and John-Michael, I'm sure you're going to chuckle, because we had these conversations and it was certainly hard to get there.
We're going to try to walk through in the morning. So the first four hours of the class we're going to walk through the standard response protocol. We're going to walk through the active shooter incident management process and then the standard reunification method. That's a lot of material to cover in four hours. On top of that, as you said, we're going to get up and get around a board and begin to walk our way through this. So we're going to do a relatively brief lecture on the standard response protocol. We're going to get everybody up around the board, around a board that's a school environment, and say, "Okay, here's the situation, which is the correct version of the standard response protocol that you want to implement. Show us how you're going to implement. Where are you going to move these kids that are in the halls and out of position and that kind of stuff, and basically get the school into either a lockout, or a lockdown configuration probably more likely.
Then we're going to go back to the lecture and talk a little bit about the ASIM process, the actual shooter incident management process, which addresses the integrated response from law enforcement and fire EMS. Show how that stands up, fits together. We're going to pause from the lecture, move back to the board. So we're going to take this school that's now in lockdown and begin to apply in a just a walkthrough way that initial response from law enforcement, fire EMS, to then manage that event from the responder point of view.
Then once the last patient is transported from the scene, we'll take another pause. Go back to lecture to talk about the standard reunification method and then come back to the board that now the crisis event is over, but we've still got all of these kids that need to be accounted for, moved safely to the reunification site, a reunification site that by the way has to be set up and organized. And then reunify the kids with the guardians, with the custodial parents and guardians, and track it all.
Then we're going to break for lunch because everybody's going to be brain dead at that point. We're going to break for lunch and when we come back in the afternoon, we're going to spend the entire afternoon running scenarios from start to finish so that we get some repetition and people can really begin to apply and under understand these processes. I'm just so excited that about doing that as a joint venture with you.

John-Michael:

Working together with a lot of America between us, from Florida to Colorado, we did manage to get stuff done. The level of effort from your side of the house was absolutely tremendous. I think I occasionally poked a finger at it as you did the heavy lifting.

Bill Godfrey:

Well, I think that's an undersell, but I appreciate it. You did an awful lot of work in the background, including helping us with some of the classroom materials and the slides, and shared an enormous amount of the information. I mean, the bulk of the course is really about SRP and SRM. The ASIM, I mean if you split it into thirds, you've got kind of two thirds of it. So I think you're selling yourself short by saying you only poked a finger at it. You had a lot more to do it within that. So that's exciting.

John-Michael:

It is. It's very exciting. I'm watching my mail carefully this time of year. I understand one of the Counterstrike kits is on its way.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah. I knew I wasn't going to get through this without being accountable for that which by the way, just to back at you, what's the date that has the new version of School Reunification Method (SRM) will be released?

John-Michael:

Yeah. It went from Q4 to Q1.

Bill Godfrey:

We do have all of the materials now. We had a little bit of a production hiccup with the student chips that we're using as part of the Counterstrike, but that has been solved. We've rerun that. We've got all the materials in-house. In fact, the young ladies that do our Counterstrike production are here today, including my daughter Abbey, and they are working on building boards and putting those kits together. So I am actually hoping to have one to send you. It's not going to get there as a Christmas present, John-Michael, but it'll be there for New Year's present.

John-Michael:

Spectacular.

Bill Godfrey:

Unless of course that white stuff that comes down in Colorado messes with shipping. That's not my responsibility. But yeah, other than that.

John-Michael:

Yeah, evidently shipping is a little tight this year, this time of year as well.

Bill Godfrey:

It is. It is. I'm actually very, very excited to get one of the first production. I know you've seen a number of the prototype versions that we built and you and I did a class together where we kind of beta tested some of this stuff and learned some, some really, really good lessons, got some great feedback. So I'm really excited to get one of the production units in your hand.

John-Michael:

I'm looking forward to it, Bill, and it is the right time of year to get it.

Bill Godfrey:

Absolutely. So I wanted to ask you about any other new I Love U Guys stuff, but I want to revisit something because you skimmed over it pretty quick and I'm not sure that our listeners may have caught that. And that is the software work you're doing to customize some stuff. Can you back up and revisit that a little bit and tell everybody what you're up to there because I think that's pretty exciting? And I think it's going to be pretty interesting to our emergency responders that are out there.

John-Michael:

One of the things that has been a fabulous training tool as well as an execution tool are our reunification operation kits. Part of the materials there, we've got a handful of binders that a school district or agency can assemble on their own. We provide the files and a manifest and schools and districts put it together themselves. But I also realized that most everyone on scene has one of those things in their pocket that's got a screen on it. So we are hoping to be able to deploy some of that training material, the job action sheets, electronically in a self-contained web blob if you will. It's called a progressive web app.
The benefit of those is we can host them on the website and folks can just download them, save them to their home screen. It looks and feels just like a little application. But the benefit of that is that we can from the website perhaps provide for some customization so that they can create a customized progressive web app that's got the reunification operation kit in it. We're excited about that. I've got some code in the mix right now. Just before I started this call, I managed to break one piece of it. But the foundation is moving more and more towards that commitment of, sure we'll deliver you a PDF at no cost. Absolutely there are books available. But we want to be able to deliver electronically so that it's phone first and phone friendly as well. That's one of our big pushes for the tail end of this year and going forward into 2020, is mobile first content delivery.

Bill Godfrey:

It's just such a fabulous idea. As you know, you and I have talked about this on several occasions. We've got a phone app that we built for our checklist that's available both in the Android store and iPhone as well that we make available for free and doesn't have commercials on that. It is for those of you out there that have never been part of developing something like that, it is not a small task. It is a lot of work to develop phone apps that are being distributed in the store. There is a pretty regimented process that you have to go through, not only to get them built, but to get them approved and released. It takes a big commitment. It takes a big commitment. I really admire not only that you guys are moving that direction on the foundation, but some of your ideas for being able to customize it are pretty exciting.
I'm very anxious to hear what your feedback is on the progressive web app tool as you and I have talked about, because it is a big undertaking to not only publish a phone app but to maintain it and take care of the inevitable tech support problems that come up. We don't get those calls too much anymore, but when we first released it there were a number of phone calls that came in, and you've got to be responsive to those and fix those things. So it's a big effort. I admire that you're doing it.

John-Michael:

Well, one of the things that's different between progressive web apps and full-blown app development is that it stays in our wheelhouse. It's HTML, Java script at the end of the day and there's less development energy necessary than going down the full app development path. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that's so anyway.

Bill Godfrey:

So other than the new web app and some custom software, do you guys have any other new stuff that you've got going on at the foundation? I know you've added some new staff members and team. What other new stuff you got going on you want to tell everybody about?

John-Michael:

Well, we'll do one more quick one. And that is earlier this week we were filming our training video for the municipal version of the Standard Response Protocol (SRP).

Bill Godfrey:

Oh wow.

John-Michael:

And the City and County of Denver has gone into a curriculum usage agreement and we have developed custom materials from a municipal perspective. That book is out. It's not on the website yet. But we're very excited about it extending beyond K-12, higher ed, et cetera. So municipal version of the SRP, and that carries some different environmental challenges and perhaps some more adult conversations.

Bill Godfrey:

That's is really exciting. Congratulations on that John-Michael. I know you've had that in the works. So that's very, very exciting to hear that that went out. I know from what you told me offline that that was well received out there. So I'm very happy for you.
Under the topic of odds and end there were a couple of things that didn't fit any place else. One of the things I wanted to remind you of and talk about real briefly was this phrase that we coined called an emotionally responsible room entry. For the benefit of the listeners, there's been a number of events, not just one, there's been a number. But there was one in particular, and I don't want to name it, but there was one event in particular that happened at a school. The event, the threat, was dealt with very quickly. The injured were rescued very quickly by all measures, a phenomenal initial response. Just a phenomenal initial response.
But then in the follow on, things kind of went a little sideways. The school had gone into lockdown. All of the doors were locked. And instead of pausing and regrouping and getting organized and getting the keys and coming up with a plan, responders began to kick doors in and forced doors and make full tactical weapons up entries into every single room when quite a bit of time had passed from the actual cessation of the active threat, the act of violence. This was a school that had some younger kids, and in the process we probably added some trauma, emotional trauma, to kids that probably wasn't really needed.
It made us step back and take a pause and say, Okay, how do we convey that to responders to say, "All right, the threat's done. The injured had been transported. You've got a perimeter. The situation's contained. Let's take a deep breath, come up with a plan for clearing and moving the kids off campus to the reunification center." And this term emotionally responsible room entry. Can you talk a little bit, and again I don't want to highlight where the incident occurred. But can you talk a little bit of more in a general sense about some of the outcomes and what you see as good guidance to responders going forward?

John-Michael:

It's really interesting. There's a few cops in the country who've been directly involved in multiple active violence incidents at schools. Two of them are actually here in Colorado. The conversation there is very interesting, because somebody who's been through this once, or twice, or three times has a different perspective. They are very tuned in to their impact on the students during the event. And there's two outcomes there.
It's a positive impact or it's a negative impact, and they totally get the challenge of, Are there more perpetrators? But they also recognize their history, their data, and their intel. And rarely is that the case. Often we can just take a deep breath, slow down, and let's not go overboard going into that room, especially if it's seven year olds. So the conversation we were having with law enforcement, we're in a unique position to do it, and it's a little tentative, although occasionally I might get a little firmer in my push on this. And that is I want everyone safe. I want that scene secured. And everyone knows that it's secure. But we can be a little more gentle with our teens, our tweens and our kiddos.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah, you mentioned seven year old and it just gave me an empty pit in my stomach and made my heart sink a little bit. I can tell you on our side, we're having a lot of conversation internally about can we develop some formal tactical guidance on how to do an emotionally responsible room entry. How do we do that in a tactically safe way, or a moderated way so that you're prepared for a threat should one present, but the entry itself is not as frightening and threatening to those in the room. I can't say that we have an answer for it yet. I'm very encouraged by the nature and the tone of the conversation. I will tell you one of the challenges is there's no universal agreement in law enforcement on how to do a room entry to begin with.
One of the funniest ways to get cops to fight with each other is to get them to pit one room entry against another and then stand back and watch the fireworks, which is sometimes entertaining but it's certainly not helpful on this topic. But it has slowed us down a little bit because nobody really agrees that there is a best way. And I think that probably is because there probably isn't one best way. There's probably a bunch of different ways that need to be selected based on the situation, the tactics, the building, the intel, all of those things going on. The experience of the team. Is your room entry being done by patrol officers or a SWAT team? That makes a big difference.
But I'm encouraged by the tenor of the conversation going on. We're actually in the process of reaching out formally to some of the tactical associations, the national associations, and asking them if they would join us in working on this. And not to say that there's only one way, or this is the right way or the wrong way, but just to give some guidance to say you can be reasonably safe, tactically safe, and still do it this way, which is not so frightening to kids. And here's an example or two of what that could look like. So here, take this and go practice on your own, and just keep it in the back of your mind.

John-Michael:

Absolutely. You hit on it and we're sensitive to it as well. That is giving folks in that profession, you got to do it this way, is a problematic thing.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah.

John-Michael:

But adding the notion that there's a consideration, is one that we're very, very attentive to and anytime there's law enforcement in the room we bring it up, and typically it starts like that. Who are my cops? Who are my cops with kids? Now let's talk about those kids. And not one of them has said to me yet, "Yeah, I want them coming in with all their guns a blazing." And it's a consideration.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah. It's funny, one of our instructors, when he teaches our hostage negotiation module, he always says, "How many people in here are married? How many people have teenage kids? Congratulations. You're already a negotiator." Do you have any other odds and ends that you'd like to just throw out there for the good of the group?

John-Michael:

We've been busy. I'm very excited. I love going out and training, but organizationally we are shooting for a cap this year that's a little less than last year and that'll allow me to get some more of the production side of things done.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah. My recollection is you spent almost 250 days on the road.

John-Michael:

2018 was very busy. 2019 was busy.

Bill Godfrey:

Yeah. Yeah. As another fellow weary traveler, I'm excited to hear for both the foundation and for you personally that you're going to try to moderate that a little bit. I know it takes time. It takes time to shift gears, but I'm excited for you.

John-Michael:

We've got some tremendous adjunct instructors. One of the conversations that came up was, "Well, it's not a John-Michael presentation." Well I can't do a Stacey presentation, and she brings her experience as a patrol deputy and how lockdown drills looked from that perspective, as well as her experience as a hostage negotiator, to our training tables. So it's trainers like her. We are delighted with the folks that are out training for us now.

Bill Godfrey:

That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Well, John-Michael, I think that's probably a pretty good place to wrap this up. I cannot thank you enough not only for being our first guest on the podcast series, but just taking the time to talk with us, to share our listeners, and to share your material. For those listeners that don't realize this, John-Michael and the foundation shared the SRP and the SRM material with us and allowed us to include it in our textbooks, in our classes, for no cost. He just says this is good material, this is the right thing to do, and made that available to us and gave us permission to do that. I just cannot thank you enough for the support you've given us in the past, and the continued support that you give us moving forward.

John-Michael:

We can't move the needle alone, Bill, and it's truly partnerships like this that start to embrace the collective impact of working together. The partnership between nonprofit and commercial organizations is stronger than either one alone.

Bill Godfrey:

I agree. I agree. It takes everybody to do it. Well, John-Michael, thank you very much. And to our listeners out there, thank you for tuning in. Please come back and join us on our next podcast and until then, be safe.